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In normal times, Israel’s presidency comes with a lot of perks and not many headaches. It’s largely a ceremonial role, after all. But these are not normal times.
“The emotional weight that I carry on my shoulders is huge,” Israeli President Isaac Herzog told POLITICO Magazine in an interview, rattling off the challenges he has faced since beginning the presidency in 2021.
There was the fallout from the Covid pandemic, a fight over changes to the judicial system that sparked massive street demonstrations, and then of course the horrors of Hamas’ attack on Oct. 7 and Israel’s brutal war afterward in Gaza. And soon there will be a contentious election, in which Israel’s voters will reckon with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s record on all of it — assuming he is able to run.
Netanyahu is currently in the middle of a corruption trial that threatens his political career and his freedom, and he has made an extraordinary request to Herzog to grant him a preemptive pardon before any conviction. The ability to offer pardons is one of the few real powers the Israeli president has, and whatever Herzog decides will inflame half the country.
The pressure for a pardon is also coming from abroad: President Donald Trump is publicly urging Herzog to pardon Netanyahu in a remarkable intervention into Israeli politics.
I first interviewed Herzog, who hails from a storied Israeli political family, after Trump made his pardon push but before Netanyahu had formally requested one. Herzog praised the U.S. president, including for his work to bring hostages back from Gaza — but also made clear that any pardon was an internal matter.
“I respect President Trump’s friendship and his opinion,” he told me, before adding, “Israel, naturally, is a sovereign country.” After Netanyahu asked for a pardon, I got back in touch, and Herzog said again that he would consider the matter carefully — and only act in “the best interest of the Israeli people.”
Herzog is coming to New York this weekend to receive an honorary doctorate at Yeshiva University, and the ceremony will bring him straight to the center of an emotional debate on Israel that has rattled many American Jews along with the broader American political system.
In addition to discussing potential pardons, Herzog also weighed in on Zohran Mamdani’s mayoral election, the future of U.S.-Israel relations and what it will take to achieve peace in the Middle East.
This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
I wanted to start with the U.S., and how American attitudes towards Israel are changing. Americans in both parties have been, or are growing, increasingly skeptical toward Israel. That's particularly true among young people. How concerned are you about the future of this relationship, and is there anything that can be done to reverse the trend?
My family's connection goes back to 15 American presidents, and as such, I have a certain perspective in my family history and also in my affection for and interest in American history.
One has to remember that the fountains of America, of American life, are based on biblical values, just like ours. And therefore, I believe that the underlying fountain that we all drink from is the same. However, I am following very closely the trends that I see in the American public eye and the attitude, especially of young people, on Israel.
It comes from TikTok, from a very shallow discourse of the current situation, pictures or viewpoints, and doesn't judge from the big picture, which is, is Israel a strategic ally? Yes. Is Israel contributing to American national interests, security interests? Absolutely yes. Is Israel a beacon of democracy in the Middle East? Absolutely yes.
Recent reports of ongoing Israeli strikes in Gaza underscore for many Americans the Israeli military’s heavy-handed approach during the war and after. They question why American weapons are being used in what they see as a horrific human tragedy. While you will push back on that framing, and I understand there are nuances here, how can you reach out to Americans who feel that way?
The issue is that we are faced by a very aggressive PR [machine], which is also supported by allies of Hamas, which is over-inflated around the world.
And I keep on saying, what I regret mostly, and what really aches, is the pain of innocent civilians in Gaza who are going through this hell whilst there is a future in their hands. The U.N. Security Council offers them a future. [Editor’s note: The U.N. Security Council recently adopted a resolution which endorses Trump’s plan and authorizes an international stabilization force.] We all supported rebuilding Gaza, but in order to rebuild Gaza, you have to get the mob out of the city. We have to get the terrorists out of the city.
During the war and now that it’s over, Israel has taken a very defensive stance — constantly saying that the media gets it wrong and often refusing to engage with criticisms. Again, how do you respond to those who believe that Israel’s conduct in the war was egregious at least or perhaps illegal?
In no way am I writing off millions of American citizens. I respect every American citizen, and I respect American democracy, and I respect the debate. All I'm asking is for fair reporting, not fake reporting, and not something superficial. You cannot just buy a TikTok message, which you know immediately blames Israel, without understanding what's behind it. We are operating in self-defense according to international law and we are trying to defend our citizens.
I think we have a major challenge in the way we explain ourselves. Israel definitely needs to improve in the way it explains itself. However, we are also trying to explain to everybody that sometimes it's kind of a lost battle, because there are billions and tens of billions of dollars poured into this brainwashing machine which doesn't want to tell the real truth. And we may be all alone, but we will keep on saying the truth: We did not seek this war. We did not want this war.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently spoke of Israel as Athens and super-Sparta, having to go at it alone. Do you think that Israel can survive without the U.S.?
I utterly believe in the alliance between Israel and the United States. I think every president who sits in the chair in the Oval Office sees it for himself and knows the real truth. The issue is that we have to bring the region to understand that war is futile and the future is peace.
President Trump has made a very unusual and public push for you to pardon Netanyahu. Are there any circumstances under which you would offer him a pardon?
The person whose case is to be discussed, which means Mr. Netanyahu, according to the Israeli rules, has to submit an application, a request, and if and when it will happen, it will be, of course, considered duly, like many other applications, I take it seriously. Seriously. I will deal with it with utter seriousness.
Editor’s note: Netanyahu requested a pardon on Nov. 30, after this interview was initially conducted. Asked for his reaction in a follow-up exchange on Dec. 2, Herzog said:
My office has now received the request for a pardon, as you know. There is a process which goes through the Justice Ministry and my legal adviser and so on. This is certainly an extraordinary request and above all when dealing with it I will consider what is the best interest of the Israeli people. The well-being of the Israeli people is my first, second and third priority.
Your father, former President Chaim Herzog, once granted a pre-emptive pardon before any conviction. Does that example give you any space to consider something similar?
Everybody understands that any pre-emptive pardon has to be considered on the merits. There are many, many issues to discuss. On the one hand, the full equality under the law, or in front of the law, as we say in Israel. And on the other hand, of course, the unique circumstances of each and every case.
I respect President Trump's friendship and his opinion. Why? Because as I tell many Israelis, it is the same President Trump we begged and asked to bring back our hostages and who led bravely an enormous step to bring back our hostages and get the U.N. Security Council resolution through. But Israel, naturally, is a sovereign country, and we fully respect the Israeli legal system and its requirements.
Are you concerned about any potential consequences from President Trump if you don't pardon Netanyahu?
I really don't think I should discuss such an issue publicly. Our relations with President Trump and with his administration are warm, frank and open. We should see it in the right context, and not immediately go to all sorts of doomsday analysis.
Pivoting to New York where you’re soon headed, I see many of my Israeli contacts on social media posting about how horrified they are by Zohran Mamdani’s victory. Right-wing Israeli politician Avigdor Lieberman declared that “The Big Apple has fallen,” and that American Jews should come to Israel. Do you think this is an overreaction?
I lived in New York in my formative years. I love the Big Apple. I love New York. I'm extremely bothered by the statements of Mayor-elect Mamdani. The rights of Jews, of the Jewish people, for self-determination and for independence, does not depend on Zohran Mamdani. [Fifty years ago], my father, together with then-U.S. Ambassador [to the U.N.] Daniel Patrick Moynihan, a huge American statesman, they both defended the State of Israel and objected to an infamous resolution [at the United Nations equating Zionism and racism.]
My father stood up in front of the U.N. General Assembly and tore up the resolution, saying that for us, the Jewish people, this is no more than a piece of paper, and we will treat it as such. He also spoke about people throughout the ages, leaders who negated the Jewish people's rights, and they've all disappeared, and their views disappeared.
You met outgoing Mayor Eric Adams during a recent visit to Israel. Do you think Mayor-elect Mamdani should come to Israel? Would you invite him?
I think Mayor-elect Mamdani should understand that in his own city, there are so many people who have Israel minted in their DNA, in their love of both America and Israel. He should study better and understand better their viewpoints and not show such disgust and hate.
Back in Israel, there are very deep fissures in society between Israel’s religious and secular populations. These divides might be one reason your country will have early elections next year. Can the current arrangement that exists in society survive?
We are already entering an election year. Israel is a democracy, a very vibrant democracy, and all the issues are on the table or in the arena. My role as president and head of state is to try and make sure that the debate will be an honorable debate and not cross red lines in terms of, God forbid, ill behavior, violence and things like that.
[The question of whether ultra-Orthodox Jews have to serve in the Israeli military] goes to the core issue of what should be optimal goals within society, which is comprised of many groups. The Arab community in Israel has been an integral part of our society involved in all fields of life. Following Oct. 7 they clearly have been a very important element in the way we have managed to get through the war. The same goes for the ultra-Orthodox community. It's a community which is highly respected and has many facets to it. We have to know these communities, talk to them of course, bring them in, involve them in the various discourses in society and bring change because of the war. All of our sons and daughters went to serve, and about half a million Israelis, all in all, went to serve and wore uniform all the way up to age 96.
What did the 96-year-old do?
I met him and his cohort, meaning 80 and above, all the way to 96. They were truck drivers. They were suppliers of food or ammunition. They worked their ass off. There are questions about service, about belief. And you know what? Since I believe in Israeli democracy and its openness, we will discuss it all.
It will be a big year for you next year. Usually, the president's role of awarding the mandate to form a government to whoever won the most seats in the election is a formality. But in the last few years, it hasn't always been the case. How do you approach this in what is expected to be a very heated election contest?
You’re putting the cart before the horse. Let's see the results. I will work diligently to make sure that the elections go smoothly. I never hide my opinion that I think we should have a large government or a national unity government, so that we can carry together this weight on our shoulders. We have many challenges, and I always prefer that.
You and your family have an incredible legacy in Israeli politics and you once led the Labor party, which doesn’t exactly exist anymore. You were Netanyahu’s main challenger in 2015, and the left has really struggled since. Can the left in Israel ever return, particularly given the absence of belief in a two-state solution in Israel?
We know where I was in 2015 and I was then leader of the opposition from 2013 to 2018. I think what will be very interesting in this election will be how Israelis view the future of the relationship with the Palestinians, because clearly, Oct. 7 was an outright wake up call. You cannot shy away from it. It was a shock to all of us. Friends of mine were butchered, okay, or murdered — people I knew personally, and they believed in peace. Three months exactly before the war, I told the U.S. Congress peace can only be achieved when there's no terror.
Millions of Israelis really want to get to peace. What Israelis really want is to change the reality so that there will be a future of peace and tranquility for Gaza and for Israel, that is what needs to be achieved. It requires everybody not to be naive, because Hamas is still there believing that only terror can achieve this and we have to make it clear to them that it's out and over for them.
Can the left be viable again?
There's a strong desire in Israel to change the reality. I don't know how you want to define it, but we have to work and strive towards it.
One last question. I read that you've described your current term as the most difficult ever faced by an Israeli president. Why do you feel that way?
In this term so far, let's remember I started with corona, then I went to the huge clashes and huge debate on [Netanyahu’s proposed] judicial reform, which tore apart the nation. Then the war, which lasts until today. My wife and I try to meet bereaved families on a daily basis — we’ve met over 1,500 families. They’re the most incredible people and they tell you about their loved ones. And I’m not talking about the enormous pain we've endured with the hostages. Thank God the live ones are back, but there is still one missing. The enormous amount of wounded and post-traumatic stress and the inner tensions among all of the members of our society. Add to it the return of heated political tension and debate.
The emotional weight that I carry on my shoulders is huge, but I'm very proud of it that God gave me this role at this moment, to be there for Israel in its most difficult hour.
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